【评论】否定一个正常维权的消费者的若干招法
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[1 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-19 18:15
近日,某车主怼西安利之星4S店的事件在网上和无忌车坛沸沸扬扬,成为热点。
经过双方博弈,在社会舆论的支持下,某车主的三条核心诉求都已满足,双方签订谅解协议书,事情告一个段落。 不过,不管出于什么心理和动机,最后转化为对一个车主※※的攻击也纷纷冒出头来。大致分为以下类型: 1 以整个社会的法制建设的名义,批评车主没有走法律途径,仿佛只有到法院去起诉4S店才是正义。 2 车主一哭一坐引擎盖,就扣上“闹事”的帽子;对于车主的※※结果,定性为“按闹分配”,直接贬低和否定其正面的积极意义。 3 批评车主只为了“个人利益”,待个人诉求满足就签了协议了事;没有站出来为了“公共利益”作出牺牲,穷追猛打4S店,没有把4S店的各种违规经营行为翻个底朝天。这种看似无限拔高的道德绑架,本质上还是想否定车主的※※。 以上三条,不管什么心理和动机,对法制建设的不切实际的希望一蹴而就也好,打着法制建设的名义实则否定该车主的※※行为和※※结果也罢,都会指向一个结果:大家不要学这位车主。 如果消费者们都不学这位车主,客观结果对谁有利?消费者学习这位车主,结合自身实际情况和条件灵活运用,结果又对谁有利?这些问题,对于有思考能力的泡菜来说,都不是问题。 ![]() 4 直接往※※的车主身上泼脏水。不管事情是不是真的,不管是不是网上有个同名同姓的人,不管...... 先恶心一句“你也不是什么好人”,骂上了再说。—— 喜欢说这些的,喜欢传播这些的,不管打的什么旗号,其阴暗心理都是昭然若揭。 * 本主题有感于车坛相关帖子的讨论,包括 隔壁这个主题 最近的讨论。 |
[27 楼] j_asura
[泡菜]
19-4-23 12:37
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[26 楼] tonypeng
[资深泡菜]
19-4-23 12:16
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[25 楼] 风中的蝶舞
[泡菜]
19-4-23 12:10
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[24 楼] j_asura
[泡菜]
19-4-23 11:55
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[23 楼] Boulevard
[泡菜]
19-4-23 11:48
BMW's $2 Million Paint Job
At first glance, the case of Dr. Ira Gore Jr. and his black BMW, argued on Wednesday in the Supreme Court, would seem to provide impressive support for the campaign by business interests to win a cap on "absurdly excessive" punitive damages. Dr. Gore, after all, was content with his luxury vehicle until he learned that the BMW he bought "new" had been repainted to cover undisclosed damage in shipping. The Alabama jury, finding fraud by the company in failing to disclose the touch-up, awarded Dr. Gore $4,000 for the decrease in the value of the car and a whopping $4 million in punitive damages -- later reduced to $2 million by the state's top court. The lopsided ratio between the punitive damages and the actual injury invites easy parody. Some call it "the case of the $2 million paint job." Yet the verdict is not nearly as troubling or indefensible as critics contend. The concept of punitive damages originated in cases where there was little compensable harm but a perceived need for punishment and deterrence. The undisclosed damage to Mr. Gore's BMW may not be as reprehensible as, say, secret toxic dumping. But it was not unreasonable for the jury to take offense at BMW's unsavory policy of selling damaged vehicles as new, and to impose the amount of punitive damages it thought needed to stop the company from continuing to cheat Alabama consumers. The high court, in recent cases, has indicated that the constitutional guarantee of due process of law places some limit on punitive damages, though it has not yet offered any standards. Given the uncertainty in the justices' questioning on Wednesday, their search is unlikely to end with this case. When it reduced the award from $4 million to $2 million, the Alabama Supreme Court took into account evidence that over a period of 10 years BMW had sold nearly 1,000 touched-up cars nationwide. But it found the lower court jury had erred in using a precise formula that multiplied the $4,000 in damage suffered by Mr. Gore by 1,000 cars, since some states where the cars were sold had laws specifying that minor repairs need not be disclosed. At first glance, the case of Dr. Ira Gore Jr. and his black BMW, argued on Wednesday in the Supreme Court, would seem to provide impressive support for the campaign by business interests to win a cap on "absurdly excessive" punitive damages. Dr. Gore, after all, was content with his luxury vehicle until he learned that the BMW he bought "new" had been repainted to cover undisclosed damage in shipping. The Alabama jury, finding fraud by the company in failing to disclose the touch-up, awarded Dr. Gore $4,000 for the decrease in the value of the car and a whopping $4 million in punitive damages -- later reduced to $2 million by the state's top court. The lopsided ratio between the punitive damages and the actual injury invites easy parody. Some call it "the case of the $2 million paint job." Yet the verdict is not nearly as troubling or indefensible as critics contend. The concept of punitive damages originated in cases where there was little compensable harm but a perceived need for punishment and deterrence. The undisclosed damage to Mr. Gore's BMW may not be as reprehensible as, say, secret toxic dumping. But it was not unreasonable for the jury to take offense at BMW's unsavory policy of selling damaged vehicles as new, and to impose the amount of punitive damages it thought needed to stop the company from continuing to cheat Alabama consumers. The high court, in recent cases, has indicated that the constitutional guarantee of due process of law places some limit on punitive damages, though it has not yet offered any standards. Given the uncertainty in the justices' questioning on Wednesday, their search is unlikely to end with this case. When it reduced the award from $4 million to $2 million, the Alabama Supreme Court took into account evidence that over a period of 10 years BMW had sold nearly 1,000 touched-up cars nationwide. But it found the lower court jury had erred in using a precise formula that multiplied the $4,000 in damage suffered by Mr. Gore by 1,000 cars, since some states where the cars were sold had laws specifying that minor repairs need not be disclosed. |
[22 楼] 风中的蝶舞
[泡菜]
19-4-23 11:44
j_asura 发表于 2019-4-19 18:45 和解释双方的事情,属于一个愿打,一个愿挨,并不需要法律依据。 |
[21 楼] 光影帝
[泡菜]
19-4-23 11:41
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[20 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-20 23:47
在网上,见多了“希拉里曾这样评论中国...”、“比尔盖茨曾经说...”
![]() ![]() 这样的文章、传言见多了,难免就提高了某种阈值 ...... ![]() |
[19 楼] allseasons
[资深泡菜]
19-4-20 21:25
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[18 楼] D+L
[禁言中]
19-4-20 21:16
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[17 楼] zigeun_6
[禁言中]
19-4-20 21:04
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[16 楼] 光影帝
[泡菜]
19-4-20 18:43
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[15 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-20 18:31
光影帝 发表于 2019-4-20 18:01 这个评论比较淡定、比较精准,说出了大家共同的心声。 ![]() 本事件作为※※个案已经协商解决,但有关部门是否能以此为契机,抓一抓汽车销售及服务行业的服务质量和态度,哪怕只从这一家涉事的企业入手也好。虽然已有“调查”的说法,但至少到现在还没有让大众感到服气、甚至感到欢呼的结果。 |
[14 楼] 光影帝
[泡菜]
19-4-20 18:01
面对资本权力的傲慢,消费者权益缺法律正常被执行的前提下,小姐姐个人怎么做都是对的。不过,※※的结果看起来似乎是侵权方给予各种特殊照顾而忽略法律的存在,于是,关注这件事的我们凌乱了……。事实结果也说明了,我们不能期望这件事给我们在未来的消费权益被损害时,※※会降低难度,最终靠还是按闹分配、靠协商解决问题。当然,我们一开始是希望这件事引起上层重视,然后采用法律手段杀一儆百,震慑奸商,从而使得我们未来消费权益被侵害时得到保护,结果怎么样,大家都看到了,这也是大家不甘心的重点所在。
本帖最后由 光影帝 于 2019-4-20 18:03 编辑 |
[13 楼] tukela
[泡菜]
19-4-20 17:16
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[12 楼] simpletime
[泡菜]
19-4-20 13:10
这个的迅速解决是因为很多后面的故事. 不是表面看见的所谓※※了.
如果是个刚毕业的小姑娘中了500万大奖去买车的话应该按照打官司的逻辑走了. 这里都是LLM,怎么考虑都那么简单呢。 |
[11 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-20 13:05
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[10 楼] tukela
[泡菜]
19-4-20 12:28
j_asura 发表于 2019-4-19 18:45 这个问题提得很好!点赞!不论问题提的对不对,问题本身层次很深,不是童心问题,而是本质的法律上的大是大非。做不到法律上的是非分明,何谈法治?何谈公道?何谈法情法理?记得有不少类似的古代※※故事。楼主的顾虑也是对的,也反映出法治还是任重路长——人们不自觉的屈服于人政的大环境。 我的意见,可以屈服,但不能没觉醒意识。都渐渐有这个意识了,路才好走。 本帖最后由 tukela 于 2019-4-20 12:32 编辑 |
[9 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-20 12:04
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[8 楼] KNDETIE
[泡菜]
19-4-20 11:38
filter 发表于 2019-4-20 10:05 “我只希望大家都各守本分,公平交易而已” 每一笔消费都能这样,自然天下太平。 |
[7 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-20 10:05
在最初那个【预测】贴里,我预测了两种可能:退款退车,换同款新车。 退款退车是车坛大多数泡菜的想法(换了我估计也会这样),因为消费者对这家经销商已经不信任了;而且,不管怎么说,双方多少有些结怨了,往后的售后服务也潜藏了危机。—— 按照这种思路和分析,消费者大概率选择退款退车。干干脆脆,一刀两断。 换同款新车的理由大致如下:1 已经闹成新闻事件了,消费者想表明 “我不是不喜欢这个车,故意找茬,然后退车退款;我是真心实意想买这个车的,就是新车的质量根本不行,根本不是一辆合格的车,我才来※※的。我只要求换,不是退。我也没有对你4S店有什么偏见、不信任,我还继续和你们做生意。我只希望大家都各守本分,公平交易而已。” 2 (可能)当地这个款型的车就这家4S店有,而消费者就喜欢这个款型。 所以,换新车而不是退车,消费者采用了更高的姿态,也是完全可以理解的。 |
[6 楼] KNDETIE
[泡菜]
19-4-20 09:52
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[5 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-19 20:30
如果是年轻人,理想和血性是推动社会前进的宝贵动力。
如果是中年人,冷静的思考和睿智的行动是把理想变为现实的关键。 同样的药,剂型剂量恰当则有利于病情好转,过急过量则可能不仅不能改善病情反而加害健康。 |
[4 楼] j_asura
[泡菜]
19-4-19 20:24
filter 发表于 2019-04-19 19:26 我很庆幸我自己还保留着童心。 设身处地为奔女想,与这样没有诚信来回拉抽屉又没有担当惧怕处罚的店家再打十年交道,我会不寒而栗。 得到新车再连同VIP资格一同转卖(假如可以转让)的话,经济上未必划算。与自己撒泼丢失的体面(如有)相比,未免廉价了一点。 斯图加特之旅我自己也可以组织,还不用承人之情。 傲慢只是态度问题,是形式,而且是主观的。责任定性才是实质,是客观的给她换车,还不如坚守三包底线,私下拿钱和解呢。人民内部问题拿人民币解决。我不信有金钱面前固若金汤的堡垒。现在猪八戒照镜子里外不是人,周郎妙计安天下,赔了夫人又折兵。 本帖由安卓客户端发布 |
[3 楼] filter
[陈年泡菜]
19-4-19 19:26
楼下要么就是太年轻,要么就是不懂设身处地。
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[2 楼] j_asura
[泡菜]
19-4-19 18:45
把我的阴暗心里暴露在阳光下。
第二条,就是按闹分配。坐在别人引擎盖上哭诉还不是闹吗?那什么是闹?若果没有视频的微博传播,某TV会当新闻播出?本来不看视频不上微博的看了某TV不是也知道了?没有那么大的传播力奔驰会重视?地方当局会重视?会主动出击迫不及待跳出来? 第三条,为了个人利益光明正大。 解决办法丝毫没有体现出法律制精神,《和解协议》通篇从头到尾不提法律依据。主管方和律师们以及某TV报道中张嘴法制闭嘴依法,请问《和解协议》的法律依据何在? 到如今我们也不知道发动机到底发生了什么?何时发生?店方是否知情?到底是不是欺诈?是不是保修责任?假如是保修责任为什么不是修而是换?假如不是保修责任更要问为什么换? 本帖由安卓客户端发布 |