It's very tough to get a perfect scratch-free lenses on ebay.  I'm pretty happy with lenses having several discrete inivisible scratches upon viewing in normal lighting conditions.  I typically examine every lens with flash light after a thorough cleaning with isopropanol.  I just don't like lenses with a lot of micro scratches on the surface.

Kievuser,
The climate in NE is not that bad.  Again it depends on the mood.  When I was in Toronto, Canada, my mood was really low and I was kind of indifferent to the winter conditions.  My mood is very high now.  The american society is more open to outsiders than any other country.  Because we are not perfect as human being, there's inevitable inquality existing such racial discrimination.  In the western culture, they value human life very very high starting with fetus.  They even treat animals such as dogs and cats as human beings (e.g., give human being name to cats and dogs).  The chinese culture is just the other way around ( e.g., serve a master just like a dog, treat human being as animals).  The mainstream in the U.S. consists of average guys or average joes.  I think I'm in the mainstream but not in the elite group.  It will take 2-3 generations to get into playing politics.  Being in the so called elite group means that one will become a people's person.  My colleague's wife comes from a very privileged family.  After high school, she is pretty on her own to earn a living.

pangmfkiev

估計是沒什麼獲利空間吧...e-bay只要有錢還好買的...
很多Jupiter-12都可以買到很新的！(黑頭的幾乎可以買到很棒品質的！)
Jupiter-9就要看運氣了...

二手坛和蜂鸟上基辅口的镜头确实很少，莱特和SY916也不多的，最近蜂鸟出过35和135两支白镜身的，再则就是SY916上的两支35黑镜身的，没有了。

落山风兄，我是不懂E文，也没在易趣上拍过，现在的头都是二手上来的。现在好象在二手中看不到中长焦头。

一上中焦或广角都有必要上万能取景器，500-600大洋，也不是一笔小开销呀！

不知道各位在大陸買這些鏡頭的方式？
在台灣比較好的方法是去e-bay買,方便;可以依照自己能力去出價,缺點是看不到實物！

另外,個人以為三個焦段就很夠用了35;50;85...135基本上是好玩的（除非想收一套）
雖然KIEV對焦基線長,可135mm裝上去對焦還是有點不放心！

看来收中焦还是可能性不大？
乐凯兄，标头是内环，其它头是外环，外环时可能机身调焦也可用镜头调焦环，但一般用镜头调焦环方便点。

只有標頭是內卡口,85 35 135都是外低！

另外,只有標頭會到無限遠的時候鎖上...所以對焦還是用手轉鏡頭吧^^

终于收到基辅4M，还算不错，挺新，就是有点绣迹，81年的产品，可能就是所谓的质量下降的后果吧，那些锈迹都是电镀层的锈蚀，各档快门都准确，测光表还能动，但不准，也没所谓了，装个乐凯的400度黑白染料版的，爱怎拍就怎拍，不太离谱就一定有影，能洗出来。可恶的是倒片钮上的摇把子竟然是恶俗的塑料，太不顺眼了，拿了一个以前凤凰相机上拆下来的摇把，把它改成金属的。不过此机用起来确实不太方便，无限远锁可能是为了调节光圈而设计的吧，一定要按部就章的设光圈，选速度，再调焦，调焦过程中最好不要再改光圈了，数字都有可能在下面看不到了。用那个调焦齿轮也是，手指别扭得不得了，乡间浪人以前就说过用中指调焦，也只有这种办法，但还是比较苦！古典相机就是这样，把玩，玩味，好像中大画幅一样，慢慢玩，慢慢拍！
是不是只有标头才用内卡口呢？其它镜头都是用外卡口，对焦也是用镜头上的对焦环，而且不会自动进行无限远锁？

还要麻烦各位基辅大侠，当你们想出基辅机身或者镜头时请先通告一声，谢谢。

感谢Kievuser和落兄的详细解答，现在我要调节一下自己的心理价位，比M42口友比特9贵2～3倍的话应该是一百美刀左右，看来ebay上的价格是合理的。

老土豆兄：
個人估計是產量的問題...
跟CONTAX/LEICA用的Jupiter-12根據手邊有的資料都還有上個世紀九零年代製造的
也多是黑色版,一般黑鏡身的年代都比較新,不過鍍膜顏色五花八門^^
可是Jupiter-9以白頭居多（白色的基本上年代比較久,雖有黑色版不過價格高,估計有少批量製作,然數量不及Jupiter-12）

落兄，我看友比特12镜头的价格还是挺便宜的，为啥友比特9的价格高出许多？是产量问题吗？

土豆兄,LTM 和KIEV口的JUPITER-9一直很贵,也不多见.我买的时候价格是M42 J-9的2-3倍.成像的味道与后期的M42 J-9不一样.银白色的早期头镀膜是紫红色的.很漂亮.想当初ZEISS的85/2 SONNAR价格可是比一台CONTAX IIA还贵哟.

老土豆兄：
M42的Jupiter-9跟旁軸用的Jupiter-9在e-bay上面本來就不是同一個價位
建議不要用M42的預期價位心態去看旁軸用的...

不過旁軸用的真的漲不少！

感谢落兄的链接，价格超过100美刀的话有点贵了，比M42口的版本贵太多。

老土豆兄...e-bay很多低！
Jupiter-9 KIEV/CCONTAX
http://search.ebay.com/jupiter-9-kiev_W0QQfkrZ1QQfromZR8QQsatitleZjupiterQ2d9Q20kiev

不過價格跟以前比起來漲了些！以前70USD甚至更低可以買到（連郵）

現在連JUPITETR-12 KIEV/CONTAX都漲了！
http://search.ebay.com/jupiter-12-kiev_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQfromZR10QQsatitleZjupiter-12Q20kievQQcatrefZC6QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsadisZ200QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch

Kievuser和pangmfkiev都收藏了多台基辅，非常令人羡慕，想请教两位，我一直想买一只Jupiter 9 85mm/f2基辅口镜头来拍人像，但是该头在国内似乎非常罕见，不知道在ebay上是否能方便的买到？成交价如何？

啊,记不清了.我从没用过那个表.

PANG, 我也去过几次美国.东北部的冬天令人十分沮丧.整天下雪,见不到阳光.秋天十分美丽.在美国生活的中国人并不容易,想融入主流社会也不容易.欧洲的一些国家似乎更有趣些. 我的儿子正在读研究生,前不久刚从美国回来.我给了他一台崭新的KIEV 4AM,他很喜欢.

All,
All right.  I checked several sites regarding GOST, ASA, and DIN.  It look like Gost number is approx. 90% of ASA.  For instance, 90 GOST equals to 100ASA.  180 GOST equals to 200ASA.
  
Kievuser,
Before I left China in the early 1991, I earned 100.00 plus yuans a month.  There's no way for me to collect kiev with that kind of salary.  The life in ※※※※※n was very tough and everything was so expensive when it's compared with Shanghai where I lived for 7 years finishing my graduate and undergraduate studies.  The life was not easy too in the North America. After many years of struggling, I got a job in Rhode Island and moved from Canada. There's no comparison between Canada and the U.S. in terms of job opportunities (Especially in New England area).  I'll go back to visit my parent family next year and stop over in Beijing.  My sister teaches at one university overthere.  I hope that my 2 young kids will have some knowledge of China in terms of geography and have some fun.  

pangmfkiev

Kievuser
泡菜
帖数:461-3
图数:0/0-0
字数:28K-0K
注册:2003年08月  

把箭头对准你用的胶卷的感光度的数字(65,130..),就能看到不同的光圈,速度组合.苏联的GOST 130差不多就是ASA 100吧.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

错了，ASA100/DIN21相当于ГОСТ90.

1995年购买的机器，押箱10年，至今各项功能完美。

pangmfkiev,

90年代初苏联相机大量进入中国时所有的KIEV旁轴价格都差不多.当时KIEV 2,3,4等都是200-300元左右.几年前我在MOSCOW和国内各买过一台KIEV 5,价格都是大约600多元人民币(USD80).现在要1000元以上. 1950-1951年的KIEV 2仍有一些使用ZEISS零件组装,配ZORKI 3M 50/2标头.有些1953-54年的KIEV 3也还用ZEISS零件.如测光表的字母是DIN.
90年代初的FED,ZORKI等只要100-200元人民币.不过当时全新的国产的海欧TLR只要40-50元.

Kievuser, old patato:
As you know, I just start collecting kiev range finder.  I know chinese character but my computer does not have a software for chinese character to use. I hope the follew members could live with this impecfection in communication.  Kievuser has a far broader range of collections of soviet cameras.  The price of these kieves is a lot higher now than before.  Jupiter 3 for kiev on ebay (U.S.) matches sonnar 5cm/1.5 or 50mm/1.5 (carl zeiss jena or carl zeiss ob).  I'm very pleased with the overall quality of kiev rangefiner.  Some needs a bit minor tweaking to get it to work.

I found a good source of kiev on ebay.  His prices are very reasonable.  the price from other sellers are way out of line.  Somebody asks $130 for kiev 3a.

I bought a kiev 2 for $140.00 (51 vintage) from this good seller.  He had several ranging from $120, $130 and $155.00 at the time I bought mine.  He recently lists another asking for $200.00.  The hobby starts getting very expensive when all adds up.

I did find some difference in J-12's (85 and 60) in terms of reflection color of glass.  The old one has a blue tone while the new one has an amber tone.  My jupiter 11 has an amber tone too.  But,my jupiter 9 (silver type, 62 vintage) has a blue tone.

Kievuser: Could you provide some historic information on pricing when you start collecting kiev rangefinder?

pangmfkiev

老土豆, PANG's current collection is still no match of mine.;-)
I agree with others that you should be the moderator of this thread.

Pang, Do you read Chinese? I guess so. It would be much better if you could post your message(s) in Chinese and share your  experience with these fascinating Soviet cameras with us. But I think many people understand your message in English.

我现在是心有余而力不足了，马上就开学了，不知道还有没有时间来维护这个精华贴。
Pangmfkiev泡菜居然收集了12台基辅，可以跟Kievuser的藏品相提并论了。我现在只有一台基辅4M和53mm/f1.8和35mm/f2.8两只头，其色彩表现确实有种厚重浓郁的感觉，清晰度也很好。其他体会还不是很深，希望与各位基辅大侠继续交流。

Greeting from the U.S and happy the Spring Festival.

I recently bought 12 kieves and one of them is on the way to my home. Kiev 2 is kind of expensive now.  I believe kiev 2a has the best value in terms of quality and price. Kiev 3 and 3a are the next.  The great advantage with Kiev rangefinder is to shoot with available light.  The color tone and rendition are much different from what I get from nikon lenses.  My wife like images from kieves. I was able to fix the range finder with 2 kiev 4a (76 and 79) and kiev 3a with tips from the kiev survival site. The kiev 3a had a very good range finder.  But the image splitter beam glass broke in two during shipping due to a poor packaging. I have a very  good sample of kiev 4 (79) needing no fine tuning.  The good  thing with a kind of new kiev 4am:  the lenses of helios lens with my 2 kiev 4am's are scratch  free.  All the other standard lenses jupiter 8 or 8m have some kind of fine scratches that will not affect images. The screws for film planes in kiev 4am (my samples) need to be fastened further.  The winding/shutter mechanism in kiev 4am are very good.  The spring for shutter in kiev 4a(76) is kind of strong. All the kieves are in a good working order now.  I'd like to add more to my collection: kiev 3 (russain letter only), one more kiev 2a, kiev 5 and several more kiev 4 (the price of kiev 4 is lowerer than kiev 4a on ebay).

pangmfkiev

应该找斑竹商量，顺便问一下，基辅2等双暗盒设计的，到底有没有倒片装置的？

如何交权？

支持乡间浪人兄的推荐，我最近也中毒，把HOPE老大的文章又翻了一遍，基辅相机！我的至爱！我也有意再买一只35广角，但没有取景器实在是不方便，买万能取景器一来贵，二来没有打算买长焦头，我的单反长焦头都卖了，不喜欢或者说不会用长焦，所以也不打算买长焦，好像基辅康太时的镜头其实挺少的，不如L39的头多。

[乐凯lucky 编辑于 2005-02-12 20:46]

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